Half Breed - Movado 2552

[X350 XJR]

2552

 

[ulackfocus]

I expected a total franken by the title of the thread. Interesting that a US Movado has a 2552 with 23 jewels instead of an import tax saving 17 jewel version.

 

[LouS]

I love that diver - it's the three hand companion to the Primero-powered Datron HS360 diver, and much harder to find in any kind of decent shape. The movement is a pure Zenith movement from the time that Movado and Zenith were part of the same holding company.

 

[X350 XJR]

Still sporting its original GF flip-lock ladder bracelet too.

 

[MMMD]

Very nice. I guess this will get the Movado-Zenith discussion going!

Perhaps your GF bracelet looks like these two under the clasp:

Reference 138 705 501?

Mine are from the first quarter of 1969:

...but they don't belong to Tempo-Matics (though that reference number is the reference number of your watch, I think). Mine came, from different sellers, attached to these:

Movado Chronodivers... a "tropical" cocoa-colored Datachron on the left, and a (probably oxidized) black-dialed Datron on the right (as far as I can tell, both of these dials would have been cornflower blue originally). The Datachron was the first expression of the El Primero movement (3019 PHC) from Movado, called the HS 360. This ad appeared in the New Yorker in November 1969:

The 17J Movado version of the El Primero:

Reference 434 705 501 on the left (chocolate-dialed Datachron). 434 705 50 on the right (black-dialed Datron; maybe a stamping error leaving out that last 1, maybe not?).

"Super Sub Sea", rated to 10 ATM... you might want to lay off the chrono pushers underwater, though.

Obligatory wristy:

The striking similarity of the Datachron Chronodiver to your (presumably earlier) Tempo-Matic, right down to the use of GF bracelets with Tempo-Matic reference numbers and that same bakelite bezel, leads me to believe that the Datachron Chronodiver was among the earliest of the 3019 PHC's. It's almost as if Movado said "Oh, we're going to get some of the world's first high-beat automatic calendar chronograph movements... sure, we've got cases to put them in... just let us modify this Tempo-Matic ever so slightly and voilà." Datachron was shortened pretty quickly to Datron... I'm not sure when exactly, but I would be surprised if the change occurred after 1970 or '71 at the latest. Here are some brochure shots of Datrons and Astronics from 1974:

Someday I gotta fill in that gap in the middle...

 

[LouS]

Nice post. I've rhapsodized at length about the Datrons elsewhere. Vintage Movado suffers cruelly because of it's current "mall watch" reputation, but Datrons are simply the best value in vintage Primero, with a fit and finish equal to Zenith.

They are still available in the mid $1000 range. By was of comparison, it'll cost you around $1000 just for a naked Primero movement. If you're a C-case fan, a Datron is very satisfying.

MMMD

Movado Chronodivers... a "tropical" cocoa-colored Datachron on the left, and a (probably oxidized) black-dialed Datron on the left (as far as I can tell, both of these dials would have been cornflower blue originally.

Disagree with you about these originally being blue. That was a separate model, with white subdials, instead of the steel grey subdials of the black dial. Your hot pink brochure shows a clear color difference in the diver with the black dial, and the simple C-case Datron with the blue dial.

Also, Movado had its own pattern of GF bracelet, although some appear with Zenith ladder-patterns and lobsters.

 

[MMMD]

LouS

Disagree with you about these originally being blue. That was a separate model, with white subdials, instead of the steel grey subdials of the black dial. Your hot pink brochure shows a clear color difference in the diver with the black dial, and the simple C-case Datron with the blue dial.

Just when I was about to give up on my brown/blue/black theory of Chronodivers, based on my watches, my brochure, and this: 1972 Japanese Movado Catalog . As I've said elsewhere, brown is brown and blue is blue... looks like my Datachron might be a Japanese model.

 

[X350 XJR]

Reference 138 705 501

Yes, mine is marked the same including the 1 over 69 designation with end-pieces marked MC.

 

[MMMD]

X350 XJR

Yes, mine is marked the same including the 1 over 69 designation with end-pieces marked MC.

Thanks for checking. There must have been some overstock. Almost as if Movado said "kill the Tempo-Matic, start cranking out Chronodivers, we'll need those bezels and bracelets".

LouS

Disagree with you about these originally being blue. That was a separate model, with white subdials, instead of the steel grey subdials of the black dial. Your hot pink brochure shows a clear color difference in the diver with the black dial, and the simple C-case Datron with the blue dial.

I had almost forgotten about this blue fly in the ointment. Curse you Baron von Osterhausen! (Not sure whether he's an actual baron, but I like to think so.)

Of course, he thinks the first '4' in the reference number is an 'A', so his credibility is a bit suspect.

 

[MMMD]

Time to update this old thread with a new favorite.

 

[X350 XJR]

COOL

 

[JimInOz]

MMMD

Time to update this old thread with a new favorite.

Thankyou for both actions, I missed the first part.

 

[Hijak]

Orange and black, a winning combination! Very nice.

 

[The Loon]

Sorry to bump an old thread.

I've studied a number of pictures of the Deep Sea 360 trying to ascertain information about what is correct when it comes to hands for the sub-dials.

I attach a picture my 360 for reference. The sweep is most likely to be an incorrect part.

I've seen some watches with small hands for the sub-dial which do not overhang the post and long hands which extend a few mil past the post. Any help in trying to find a definative answer would be appreciated. Mine has both example of the hands I refer to.

Edited: Jan 30, 2015

 

[MMMD]

I like this thread, so bump away as far as I am concerned. The chrono sweep is definitely incorrect. I think the seconds subdial hand might be correct, but the other subdial hands appear to be replacements. In my Movado brochure from around 1974, they call your watch a "Chronodiver." I think the subdial hands should all be the same shape, size and color.

 

[The Loon]

Thanks for the reply

MMMD

I like this thread, so bump away as far as I am concerned. The chrono sweep is definitely incorrect. I think the seconds subdial hand might be correct, but the other subdial hands appear to be replacements. In my Movado brochure from around 1974, they call your watch a "Chronodiver." I think the subdial hands should all be the same shape, size and color.

Thanks for the info.

Does anyone know if Zenith or Movado would still have NOS parts so I can replace the sweep and other hands?

 

[MMMD]

Maybe Zenith. But extracting them might be tricky.

 

[The Loon]

MMMD

Maybe Zenith. But extracting them might be tricky.

Extracting them from the dial?

 

[Darlinboy]

Extracting them from Zenith.

 

[Stewart H]

Zenith parts can be a complete minefield, especially the early el Primero parts. What you need is time, patience AND a way in. Zenith can make, pretty near, any part for someone who has that way in. The easiest way is through the parts manager at your nearest LVMH service centre - if you can get hold of him. He can get the parts but is not allowed to sell them outside of the Zenith approved watchmaker chain (and that is not a published list). These approved watchmakers can also get the parts via the LVMH service centre, so if you find one of these watchmakers, treat him like your best friend. This gives you two options: either you have to convince the LVMH centre to do, just the work you want - or get them to service the watch at the same time or, the same with the approved watchmaker.

It can take several weeks for Zenith to confirm if they have the parts or if they are prepared to make them and then it can take a couple of months for the parts to turn up. Be prepared to pay a lot for these parts.