Zenith with windingcrown at 12

Mr Watch
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P1460855.JPG P1460863.JPG P1460869.JPG This Zenith has a movement of chronometerquality. The balance has goldscrews and high polish on all steelparts. The screws are bevelled, not flat, and polished to the highest standard. The windingcrown at 12 á Clock is missing. The caliber is well known but I have never seen it in this extra high standard. Any information concerning this Watch is of great interest.

Rgds
Peter
:)
Edited:
 
Mr Watch
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To compare I show a very early Zenith, made ca 1915, with a similar movement. The finish is good but not comparable with the one above.
Rgds
Peter
Armbandsur 132.jpg Armbandsur 130.jpg Armbandsur klocksamlingen 020.jpg :)
 
Horlogerie
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Hello Peter,

Welcome to the forum.

I don't believe that the movement is of chronometer quality, for these reasons:

1 - most timed and adjusted movements have engraved on the movment "timed in 5 positions and adjusted for temperature" there is nothing like that on the movement
2 - the balance screws are most likely brass, the same material as the balance rim, gold is unnecessary for timing screws, they look gold as does the wheels and plates and bridges but these are also all brass
3 - rounded vs flat screw heads in themselves are not an indicator of high quality
4 - the regulator is set all they way over to the "slow" setting, it should be in the middle, so something is not correct

Rob
 
M
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Mr Watch Mr Watch
P1460855.JPG P1460863.JPG P1460869.JPG This Zenith has a movement of chronometerquality. The balance has goldscrews and high polish on all steelparts. The screws are bevelled, not flat, and polished to the highest standard. The windingcrown at 12 á Clock is missing. The caliber is well known but I have never seen it in this extra high standard. Any information concerning this Watch is of great interest.

Rgds
Peter
:)
 
M
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0
Mr Watch Mr Watch
P1460855.JPG P1460863.JPG P1460869.JPG This Zenith has a movement of chronometerquality. The balance has goldscrews and high polish on all steelparts. The screws are bevelled, not flat, and polished to the highest standard. The windingcrown at 12 á Clock is missing. The caliber is well known but I have never seen it in this extra high standard. Any information concerning this Watch is of great interest.

Rgds
Peter
:)
 
Mr Watch
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Horlogerie Horlogerie
Hello Peter,

Welcome to the forum.

I don't believe that the movement is of chronometer quality, for these reasons:

1 - most timed and adjusted movements have engraved on the movment "timed in 5 positions and adjusted for temperature" there is nothing like that on the movement
2 - the balance screws are most likely brass, the same material as the balance rim, gold is unnecessary for timing screws, they look gold as does the wheels and plates and bridges but these are also all brass
3 - rounded vs flat screw heads in themselves are not an indicator of high quality
4 - the regulator is set all they way over to the "slow" setting, it should be in the middle, so something is not correct

Rob

My opinion stil is that the movement is of extraordinary quality compared to the others of the same sort. Compare with the other watch above.The lack of engraved text is strange, I agree, perhaps this watch was never intended för chronometertests? I will, when time alow, publish som new detailpictures. I will also check if there is any caliber or mark engraved on the movement. I will also check behind the dial...:)
 
Mr Watch
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M monk5215
What is the calibre of this watch? Peter
I come back when I have checked....
Do you have any Pictures, movementnumber etc?:)
 
Geo!
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Horlogerie Horlogerie
Hello Peter,

Welcome to the forum.

I don't believe that the movement is of chronometer quality, for these reasons:

1 - most timed and adjusted movements have engraved on the movment "timed in 5 positions and adjusted for temperature" there is nothing like that on the movement
2 - the balance screws are most likely brass, the same material as the balance rim, gold is unnecessary for timing screws, they look gold as does the wheels and plates and bridges but these are also all brass
3 - rounded vs flat screw heads in themselves are not an indicator of high quality
4 - the regulator is set all they way over to the "slow" setting, it should be in the middle, so something is not correct

Rob

It's not often I disagree with Rob's views, but I do regarding the quality of Peter's Zenith movement.

The movement is fitted with jewels that are fitted in what appears to be brass or gold mountings rather than pressed directly into the plates. I wouldn't expect this detail on a low quality movement. It may not be a chronometer, but I would suggest that it is capable of very accurate adjustment.

The regulator is not all the way over to the slow setting. At the slowest setting, the position of the cam X would be at position Y. At its fasted setting position Z on the cam would be at position Y. The regulator is almost set in mid position as it stands.

image.jpeg
 
ELV web
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If u go to the link that @nicola1960 posted you can find a lot of answers to this including what caliber it is (caliber 12 probably) when it was made and how it was kept at the factory for probably a decade or more before being cased in the 30s. And there is also good discussion re savonnette vs. lepine type of movement, Google translate will do the trick ;) thanks nicola!
 
M
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Mr Watch Mr Watch
P1460855.JPG P1460863.JPG P1460869.JPG This Zenith has a movement of chronometerquality. The balance has goldscrews and high polish on all steelparts. The screws are bevelled, not flat, and polished to the highest standard. The windingcrown at 12 á Clock is missing. The caliber is well known but I have never seen it in this extra high standard. Any information concerning this Watch is of great interest.

Rgds
Peter
:)
Can you tell me the caliber mine has a very close serial number, i want the overcoil balance spring or complete balance and a crown
 
Horlogerie
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The jewel fittings are simply one of the variations that was used during the transition from rubbed in jewels, to jewels in chatons, to jewels in chatons with 3 screws around the edge holding them in place, to jewels like we have to day, where they are friction fitted in the plates. It is not unusual to find many movements of all grades from this era with this type of jewel setting, the setting alone doesn't necessarily signify a high end movement, it's simply what was available at that period as far as jewelling was concerned. While it may be unusual for this particular movement, a fully jewelled example without the chatons is of the same quality as this one, as far as jewelling the train is concerned. The escapement, balance and hairspring are the most important when it comes to the time keeping accuracy, if it's timed in positions and adjusted for temps, normally it's engraved on the movement.

With regards to the position of the regulator arm, once the arm is at the edge of the balance cock, either in the full fast or full slow position, it's considered as having reached it's limit. While the arm may be able to be moved beyond the balance cock, it would not be normal to have it sit in that position. Ideally it should be centred on the cock or slightly to one side of the centre or the other. That the arm is sitting at the edge of the cock to me, indicates something wrong with the hairspring set up.

Rob
 
Geo!
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I accept what you say regarding the jewels Rob, but I'm still sure that the regulator is near mid position of the adjuster cam, with a slight bias towards the fast setting.
 
Horlogerie
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Hi Geo,

You are probably right, it is an unusual setting where the regulator arm would extend past the edge of the cock, haven't worked on this particular one in person, so I can only offer what I have seen in the past...

Rob
 
s1m0n
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Hi Peter,

I have the same watch, inherited from my Grandfather. It's the same movement but lesser grade I think on mine.


G_dad_zenithmovement_1_zpsc2f85fef.jpg


G_dad_zenithwristshot_zps1c915e90.jpg


Any other info on this watch would be good to know, not much info on the web.

Simon
 
M
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s1m0n s1m0n
Hi Peter,

I have the same watch, inherited from my Grandfather. It's the same movement but lesser grade I think on mine.


G_dad_zenithmovement_1_zpsc2f85fef.jpg


G_dad_zenithwristshot_zps1c915e90.jpg


Any other info on this watch would be good to know, not much info on the web.

Simon
 
M
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Simon, Contact Zenith watches web site you can request information about the watch ,photos, serial numbers,case numbers i dont know if there is a charge for this. Peter
 
vinn2
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mr, watch: are you going to have any problem installing a stem and crown? a very interesting watch.
 
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