Zenith Carbon Fibre Strap

[binmath88]

Was seriously considering the Zenith watch with Carbon Fibre strap, the Chrono Master Open Titanium Concept. Though I have found some photos online of the carbon fibre strap looking like its used (though its on brand new watches). It almost appears as if a layer is peeling off and looks like lots of blemishes on the strap. I've marked some of the issues I've found in two photos here.

Anyone familiar with this strap and any comments on the same?

It is meant as a gift for someone, hence don't want them to think I'm giving them a badly used watch.

Inputs would be greatly welcomed!

 

[ulackfocus]

If you look for imperfections on anything, you'll find them.

Speaking of which, It's ironic you criticize a company in a thread where you spelled the brand you're nitpicking on as "Zenit". Luckily, it's been corrected. You're welcome.

 

[binmath88]

Thank you for your reply Dennis, however I've found these pictures of another awesome model (the Port Royal Open Concept), which also is plagued by a similar carbon fibre strap. I am not that particular about imperfections (I don't drive a Rolls Royce, which uses leather from cows in the colder European countries, where there are not many insects / parasites, the bites of which could ruin /cause blemish, to the leather), but that doesn't mean that a new one looks like its got a couple of years' worth of wear and tear.

I am comfortable with leather (and metal ofcourse) straps, which have a natural texture and pattern (depending on the origin of the leather, its treatment, etc). But this looks almost like a layer is getting peeled off (and probably with usage it would get worse).

While I'm trying not to be picky (the gift is intended for my brother-in-law and you can imagine my wife would want it to be as perfect as possible!), this does look like something is amiss. Hence I wanted to double check if someone has some experience with regard to these straps and if it gets worse (with usage) or it remains just about the same.

The really tough part is that I like these watches (these open concepts are with titanium cases and the black is really awesome), hence in split minds.

 

[bill5959]

Here's the deal IMHO. This is coming from the car side. CF is a fickle friend. It has great strength but poor shear strength. You are seeing this in the band. Drive a Ferrari or other S car and you will not be impressed by the cut and finish of CF. They hide it but it's still cheap.

 

[binmath88]

hi Bill,

You are right about the CF in the auto industry. Infact the big names go through a very very difficult procedure to get the weave pattern of the CF right (and as correctly as possible), a good example is the CF tub in the McLaren MP4-12C (wish they'd a better name for that model). Very few factories get it right (its like a dark-art, and most CF work is outsourced in the auto industry).

I was apprehensive about the same in the strap (my major initial concern was the feel of the CF, but then understood they have leather underneath the CF, which was a major relief). Leather ages well (ofcourse depending on who and how they use it), CF being rather new to this usage is still untested in the sense how it would withstand time. But what is a complete surprise to me, is that even when its brand new, it appears shabby (to say the least). I agree CF is extremely difficult to handle (while manufacturing), but then the better brands (Zenith included) should probably not attempt unless they get it absolutely right (just my opinion). It reminds me of Steve Jobs, how he demanded perfection for the products (including the iphone, which he got the Gorilla glass option, after the regular screen of the prototype got scratched badly with the keys in his pocket).

I guess it also makes business sense if they are initially trying out this material (CF) and seeing if the Consumer is warming up to it or not (this reminds me of the cautious approach that VW takes, before introducing a new concept in Audi, they always check it out first with a VW vehicle, examples include the Touareg and Q7, the CC and A7, etc, which is quite unlike BMW).

I guess its been too long a post already...., I hope I've not bored anyone to sleep so far...

 

[Stewart H]

The difference I see here is that with other CF applications, the cloth is encased in a resin and baked at high temperatures under extremely high pressure. It is designed to be rigid. The watch strap, by its very nature, has to be flexible and I wonder if this allows the weave to de-laminate as it is not held firmly in place.

BTW Bill, the finish on the CF interior on my Ferrari is very good.

 

[bill5959]

Sorry about the F car crack. Mine only has leather.

 

[STANDY]

Lucky you have about 30,000 other straps that would fit.
Have seen CF on car parts that have lost there rigid lacquer over time and turn to like paper mache as water gets in

 

[Stewart H]

bill5959

Sorry about the F car crack. Mine only has leather.

No offence taken.

Interestingly, when we got involved with the design of the McLaren Production Centre (where they build the road cars) Alan Foster showed us around their existing assembly facility and they were building the last of the McMercs (the 722). He explained the cost of carbon fibre to me with regard to options on cars. When people spec carbon this and carbon that, a large part of the cost is because they want "bare" carbon. So much is rejected because the weave is imperfect visually, but still perfectly functional. Of course, if you want it painted, then nobody will ever know how pretty the weave looks.

Despite having let me sit in a pre-production 12C, I would choose a Ferrari 99 days out of 100 over a Macca. On the other day, I would think about it and then choose the Ferrari (and spec lots of carbon)

 

[Stewart H]

Sorry for the hijack, but to the OP, if it pisses you off that much, replace it with a carbon grain leather strap.

 

[binmath88]

Stewart H

No offence taken.

Interestingly, when we got involved with the design of the McLaren Production Centre (where they build the road cars) Alan Foster showed us around their existing assembly facility and they were building the last of the McMercs (the 722). He explained the cost of carbon fibre to me with regard to options on cars. When people spec carbon this and carbon that, a large part of the cost is because they want "bare" carbon. So much is rejected because the weave is imperfect visually, but still perfectly functional. Of course, if you want it painted, then nobody will ever know how pretty the weave looks.

Despite having let me sit in a pre-production 12C, I would choose a Ferrari 99 days out of 100 over a Macca. On the other day, I would think about it and then choose the Ferrari (and spec lots of carbon)

This reminds me of the initial models of the non CRT TVs (LCD/LED), the failure rate was very high initially (they have a limit on the number of dead pixels, if it's more than the acceptable limit, it's rejected) , this was the main reason for the initial prices were much higher than current (as they had to recoup the cost for the failures from the ones which were not). These days the production process has improved significantly and hence failure rates have dropped significantly.

The carbon fibre technology is still not quite that level yet, probably in the near future they would develop new production methods to make it easier and better.

I agree and did consider replacing the strap (that's what I plan to do), though it's probably not going to be gifted (I might get it for myself).

Still would appreciate inputs.

 

[bill5959]

Stewart, I forgot that there would be a large number of engineers on here….DUH. CF is a great product. Manufacturing is the unsung hero in people's lives. They just don't know what it takes to put some of this stuff out that we take for granted. you're lucky to get in the McClaren, I've not had that chance. Ever since I've moved from AZ my access to high end cars has diminished considerably. Meet you on the highway someday.

Now back to our regularly scheduled overdone addressing of carbon fiber watch bands…...