That A385 on Hodinkee

[Andy K]

I've recently been bitten by the El Primero bug. I picked up a Fernseher a few months ago, picked up a copy of Rossler, and have been on the lookout for my next EP. Right now A385 is at the top of my list. So this morning when I saw one in the Bring a Loupe column I was excited - but only for a second.



I had seen this one on Instagram just a day or two ago, and didn't think twice about it because the case was polished and the price was $5600. There are a handful of similar condition pieces on Chrono24 right now for at least $1,000 less, and I thought those were too high. Am I missing something? Is the GF bracelet worth that much?

I'd be willing to pay the Hodinkee premium for the right unpolished example, but this one seemed overpriced even by overpriced dealer standards, and that was BEFORE the Hodinkee stamp was applied. I'm curious to know more experienced people's thoughts on the price relative to condition of this and other A385s. A few sold earlier this year on the forums for less than $3,500. I think I'm just late to the party as usual!

 

[JohnSteed]

Good thinking. But it's likely the cats out of the bag now for this Z. As far as pricing goes...

 

[Darlinboy]

I saw this one a day or two ago on the dealer's website, and IMO, it is a pretty nice example. That dial is way better than anything else I have seen on offer lately, most have stained or dirty subregisters. The case is polished, but not overly so.

Seriously considered snagging it, even at that price, and even though I just bought one. These are getting scarcer and scacer in top condition, and still a relative bargain vs. the 384 and especially the A386.

 

[papaebetu]

Full bracelet, if correct and with diver extension, is very hard to find today
Here got also the correct end links (overpolished the case lugs) so they don't touch perfect

GIGI

 

[donkii]

I'm amazed how Hodinkee one day has articles about polished watches and when reading you get the message to stay out of the non original polished watches and some days after they sell or recommend polished and even over polished vintage watches.
Hodinkee has lost my respect since a while back since they lost the genuine touch and started focus on money.

 

[Traveler]

donkii

I'm amazed how Hodinkee one day has articles about polished watches and when reading you get the message to stay out of the non original polished watches and some days after they sell or recommend polished and even over polished vintage watches.
Hodinkee has lost my respect since a while back since they lost the genuine touch and started focus on money.

+1 - I find 'Market Watch(ing)' a much better read than 'Bring a Loupe' these days ...

 

[Darlinboy]

I'd venture to say that several of the members here are much more capable than any "watch journalist" of turning up great watches time after time over weeks and months and years.

The larger problem is that said members then buy those watches, and don't share the opportunities with me - er I mean us!

They must be U of D grads.

 

[Andy K]

JohnSteed

Good thinking. But it's likely the cats out of the bag now for this Z. As far as pricing goes...

Darlinboy

I saw this one a day or two ago on the dealer's website, and IMO, it is a pretty nice example. That dial is way better than anything else I have seen on offer lately, most have stained or dirty subregisters. The case is polished, but not overly so.

Seriously considered snagging it, even at that price, and even though I just bought one. These are getting scarcer and scacer in top condition, and still a relative bargain vs. the 384 and especially the A386.

This is my concern - that these prices are the new normal and finding a 100% original example might be next to impossible. I probably just need to decide what imperfections I'm willing to live with.

 

[Andy K]

papaebetu

Full bracelet, if correct and with diver extension, is very hard to find today
Here got also the correct end links (overpolished the case lugs) so they don't touch perfect

GIGI

Thanks. I've never seen or worn the bracelet in person obviously but to me this reference looks better on a leather strap. I am probably less willing to overpay for the bracelet.

 

[Andy K]

donkii

I'm amazed how Hodinkee one day has articles about polished watches and when reading you get the message to stay out of the non original polished watches and some days after they sell or recommend polished and even over polished vintage watches.
Hodinkee has lost my respect since a while back since they lost the genuine touch and started focus on money.

Traveler

+1 - I find 'Market Watch(ing)' a much better read than 'Bring a Loupe' these days ...

Darlinboy

I'd venture to say that several of the members here are much more capable than any "watch journalist" of turning up great watches time after time over weeks and months and years.

The larger problem is that said members then buy those watches, and don't share the opportunities with me - er I mean us!

They must be U of D grads.

Well, just to play devil's advocate, I imagine it is difficult for one writer or even a small team of writers to have expertise in such a broad spectrum of brands, movements, and niches. But you are absolutely right that it sometimes seems they contradict themselves in an effort to push out more content. I find that my own uninformed gut is a good start, and the real collectors here at OF are the closest thing to an honest, unbiased source for education and evaluation. So a sincere thanks for all your helpful replies!

 

[Andy K]

How does this case look to you all? To me the case at first looked very sharp but in this pic it appears the edge at about the 39 minute mark is a bit uneven. It also has some staining in the 3:00 subdial (which I could live with) and is missing the correct chronograph hand. Is that hand something that could readily be replaced?

 

[Darlinboy]

Correct hand will be quite difficult to find. I have wondered if one from another inexpensive reference (Defy) would work?

I have also been attracted to these lately and have looked at dozens of examples. I have found the best way to check the case on these is to put it side-by-side with one that is known to be untouched, comparing the widths and angles of the various surfaces. Watches my heart told me looked good, leaped out as refinished using this method. I keep a number of exemplar photos on file for just this purpose. For example, on cases that have been refinished, the top surface is often thinner at 3 and 9, and the top/side bevel is wider. That said, I have seen some very excellent refinish jobs. Done expertly, and if the dial is good, it would definitely not be a deal-killer for me, though it would affect the price I'd pay vs. one untouched.

These early El Primeros are a magnet to me lately as well. Just snagged a Fernseher myself, though it won't arrive for a while. I blame @LouS for his wonderful El Primero cheat sheet and related reference posts/monographs on the early references.

 

[Andy K]

Darlinboy

Correct hand will be quite difficult to find. I have wondered if one from another inexpensive reference (Defy) would work?

I'm actually considering buying two, putting the best parts together, then selling the lesser example. I only wish I was kidding about this.

Darlinboy

I have also been attracted to these lately and have looked at dozens of examples. I have found the best way to check the case on these is to put it side-by-side with one that is known to be untouched, comparing the widths and angles of the various surfaces. Watches my heart told me looked good, leaped out as refinished using this method. I keep a number of exemplar photos on file for just this purpose. For example, on cases that have been refinished, the top surface is often thinner at 3 and 9, and the top/side bevel is wider. That said, I have seen some very excellent refinish jobs. Done expertly, and if the dial is good, it would definitely not be a deal-killer for me, though it would affect the price I'd pay vs. one untouched.

These early El Primeros are a magnet to me lately as well. Just snagged a Fernseher myself, though it won't arrive for a while. I blame @LouS for his wonderful El Primero cheat sheet and related reference posts/monographs on the early references.

I agree about comparing to top examples, and I happen to have saved one of your photos as well. The notes by @LouS that are saved as stickies at WUS are a tremendous reference.

Congrats on the Fernseher, can't wait to see it!