Is this a solid rose gold and SS case ?

bgrisso · Sep 24, 2019

The case reference is a stainless (starting with 2), and it has rose gold lugs and bezel. The rose gold color is the same on the sides and back of the lugs as the front, and there is no sign of any plating loss anywhere on the bezel or lugs.

I believe when UG did combination cases like this, it's usually solid rose gold? Am I correct in this understanding, is there any way to verify this (short of taking to a jeweler and having them test it?).

I will include a few pics, but please note its very hard to photograph the rose gold as it often ends up looking like stainless, especially the shot from the rear.

bgrisso · Sep 24, 2019

In researching online I found this example, which is listed as 14K rose gold and SS case.....

https://shop.secondtimearoundwatchco.com/products/a-vintage-men-1940s-universal-geneve-rose-gold-14k

sdre · Sep 24, 2019

looks awesome all the same.

Woops · Sep 25, 2019

That's a cracker; where have you been hiding that one?!? Looks like a 34mm case?

aap · Sep 25, 2019

What a beauty, B!!!

sdre · Sep 25, 2019

Woops
That's a cracker; where have you been hiding that one?!? Looks like a 34mm case?

B reminds me of doremon. The Japanese cartoon cat who has heaps of cool stuff in his pocket.

Syrte · Sep 25, 2019

Magnificent. Inshould even say dibs! (Although I’m dibsed out!).
May I suggest, this does not look like rose gold. It looks like yellow gold but it has taken a beautiful rich patina.

Nowadays « rose gold » is used everywhere for hype, just as sellers use « calatrava » or « military» indiscriminately. However rose gold really looks pink as in the picture you posted.
Who cares? It’s stunning.

Here’s another example of rose gold, except it’s gold filled.

ConElPueblo · Sep 25, 2019

bgrisso
The case reference is a stainless (starting with 2), and it has rose gold lugs and bezel. The rose gold color is the same on the sides and back of the lugs as the front, and there is no sign of any plating loss anywhere on the bezel or lugs.

From the picture of the rear of the watch, it looks just like a normal gold-capped watch to me, sorry. The rose gold sides are visible and the brushed surface of the steel center is just like what I am used to seeing.

ConElPueblo · Sep 25, 2019

I should add that the tone of rose is the same as on my Mido Multifort (gold bezel, steel case) from the mid-fifties. It is even, light, pink tone different from oxidized yellow gold.

Carlton-Browne · Sep 25, 2019

I have one of these - I've been looking for a replacement dial for getting on 2 years now. I'd always assumed it was rolled gold as I haven't been able to find any hallmarks.

My recollection is that it is 32mm.

bgrisso · Sep 25, 2019

Thanks for all the replys everyone, it is an interesting case and I think worth exploring a bit further.....

It is 32mm, although the top to bottom lug size of 40mm means it obviously wears a bit bigger.

It is definitely rose gold, very strongly so, I have lots of other gold references in the house so it's easy to spot.

I gave it to my special lady friend a few years back, and so it sits in her watch case not mine, so I don't see it much. She has been refocusing her collection and asked if I thought she should keep or sell this one, and so I was researching it. I had always presumed it was gold plated, without ever thinking about it, but looking at it closely, it is definitely not plated.

It's also definitely not gold cap. I know how it appears in the rear photo, and I know how that can be misleading, but I have it here in my hand, the gold color completely covers the bottom surface of the lug without any SS visible, and my understanding with gold cap is the base metal would be visible on the underside of the lugs?

So as far as I can tell, it's either gold filled, or solid gold, unless someone has another option?

I would tend to presume that if it were solid gold there would be hallmarks on the lugs, and without such hallmarks, it is probably be gold filled. Sounds like others would agree on this thinking.

I am seeing other examples online, aside from the one posted above, and people keeping saying either 14K or 18K rose gold in the listings. I assume if someone says 14K or 18K, that means solid gold. But perhaps I am misunderstanding this, can you say 14K or 18K for gold filled? Maybe those are just advertising weasel words. Anyhow here's one (no hallmarks I can see), the texture on the back of the lugs looks the same to me, its just much cleaner:

https://www.acollectedman.com/colle...ograph-22261-watch-cal-481?variant=1740210179

Another example is right here on OF, this one:

The owner started out saying it was gold cap (perhaps meant gold filled?), then said it was solid rose gold, I assume based on further investigation. @knafel1983 perhaps you can clarify. Are there any hallmarks and what leads you to say it is solid gold?

Lastly, is there any test to resolve if it is gold filled or solid gold? (short of a deep scratch or some other destructive test method).

bgrisso · Sep 25, 2019

Carlton-Browne
I have one of these - I've been looking for a replacement dial for getting on 2 years now. I'd always assumed it was rolled gold as I haven't been able to find any hallmarks.

My recollection is that it is 32mm.

have you tried removing the bezel to get a look at the underside? I'm not seeing any gaps anywhere on mine, and I don't want to risk any damage trying to get in there with a razor blade

Carlton-Browne · Sep 26, 2019

No. I haven't. I've had the movement out and I've been all over it with a 10 x loupe and all I can see is that it could benefit from an ultrasonic bath. Certainly no hallmarks although I'll look again after it's been cleaned.

bgrisso · Sep 26, 2019

Seems unlikely to find any hallmarks. I also wonder if the solid vs fill question also has to do with the lug style, in other words some shapes might be suited for gold fill but others not? (I don't know the manufacturing involved in gold fill). IE the horn lugs on that last compur posted above are a very different shape then the ribbon lugs at the top....

Vitezi · Sep 26, 2019

I don't have any specific knowledge of UG case construction techniques; I'm just trying to reason this puzzle through.

I imagine it would be difficult to reliably bond solid gold lugs onto a stainless steel case, given that the lugs are subject to the most stress. So I'd start with the assumption that the lugs and case are the same material (stainless) for a strong connection and that the lugs are covered with gold for some bling.

This picture (from above) looks like the lugs were first gold-filled and then inserted through a hole in the case. The lugs would need to be bonded on the inside (Welded? Press-fit?) If you're comfortable removing the movement from your watch, you might be able to see evidence of this connection.

As far as the bezel, other manufacturers of that era often applied a solid gold bezel to a stainless case, so I would think UG did the same. My theory is - solid gold bezel, gold-filled lugs.

Dan S · Sep 26, 2019

I agree that it's extremely likely to have a solid gold bezel. I really can't say about the lugs. Unusual and interesting case.

bgrisso · Sep 26, 2019

Vitezi
I don't have any specific knowledge of UG case construction techniques; I'm just trying to reason this puzzle through. I imagine it would be difficult to reliably bond solid gold lugs onto a stainless steel case, given that the lugs are subject to the most stress. So I'd start with the assumption that the lugs and case are the same material (stainless) for a strong connection and that the lugs are covered with gold for some bling.

This picture (from above) looks like the lugs were first gold-filled and then inserted through a hole in the case. The lugs would need to be bonded on the inside (Welded? Press-fit?) If you're comfortable removing the movement from your watch, you might be able to see evidence of this connection.

As far as the bezel, other manufacturers of that era often applied a solid gold bezel to a stainless case, so I would think UG did the same. My theory is - solid gold bezel, gold-filled lugs.

That pic is a bit misleading, it does make it look like the lugs are going into a cut out in the mid case. But they are not, here's a few more angles. My case looks the same, in that the lug is connected directly at the mid case, and there is some darker material at the connection point. I don't know if this is just crud built up over time, or is actually there as part of the process to connect the lug, or both.

The only reason I'm using these pics is I don't have a great macro lens myself to get shots of my watch. (This Tri example that is posted, looks like the lugs are been polished quite a bit compared to mine?).

bgrisso · Sep 26, 2019

I really miss having a decent macro lens, tripod, and lights. Oh well.......

Foo2rama · Sep 26, 2019

Carlton-Browne
I have one of these - I've been looking for a replacement dial for getting on 2 years now. I'd always assumed it was rolled gold as I haven't been able to find any hallmarks.

My recollection is that it is 32mm.

If it was filled/rolled I would not expect the prongs for the strap attachment to be the same color as the case.

bgrisso · Sep 26, 2019

Foo2rama
If it was filled/rolled I would not expect the prongs for the strap attachment to be the same color as the case.

As you probably already noted, and I confirmed on my case as well, the male spring bar attachments (what is the proper name for those?) are rose gold color, exact same as the lugs