Is this a known dial? Zenith 146HP Stainless Steel Chronograph

[ezinternet]

I'm looking at this 146HP Chronograph and wondering if anyone else has ever seen this dial before.

It isn't the A277 that we know and love. Yet it has some elements of similar dials of the period. And as best can be seen from the bad pictures it doesn't appear to me to be an obvious re-dial.

- Like the contemporary Movado version it has the tachymetre ring to the outside of the indices.
- Like other Zenith cal 14x chronographs it has the seconds subdial marked at 10-second intervals

However,
- It says Swiss T rather than what I generally see more frequently on Zenith "Swiss Made T"
- There is neither "Base 1000" or "Tachymetre" marked on the tacky ring

If the A277 was a predecessor proto-DeLuca then this dial seems like a different branch of the same family tree. It marries elements of the A277 (5,10,15,20 .. marks at the indices) but adds the the tachy ring to the 146 Panda dial.

Has it been seen in the wild before?

-Ez

Subject Dial:


Subject Dial close-up:


A277:

The DeLuca evolution:



Movado Chronograph:

 

[Gavin]

Looks similar to this one discussed here.
www.omegaforums.net/threads/information-about-my-zenith-146-hp.13654/

 

[ezinternet]

d'oh! thanks Gavin! (I even commented in that thread )

The pictured example above is wearing a more faded bezel than Aopa765's from the thread in June '14. Old one seemed to have white subs, this one silver. So this is another example. That makes two.

Then I found one more, stripped of rotating bezel on chrono24, if you search for "Zenith Panda 1950er Chronograph". This has a 232Dxxx serial on the back. I don't think that would qualify as a 1950's watch. But that makes three.


If the watch is "factory" then two details stand out for me as different from other Zeniths: the seconds-subdial markings horizontally aligned around the sub-dial and the hour/minute hands shape. Here's an example of same style of seconds, in a Martel (credit Sempervivens). I couldn't find the same in any Zenith until the 1980's.

 

[LouS]

May be authentic - although even the accumulation of examples does not convince me so - but it is not a design triumph.

 

[Fred400]

Hi, I think that the bezel is not original. It does not fit to this watch. This is probably a strange bezel, which produced random fits of the diameter.
The Martel watch is interesting. Probably the predecessor of the El Primero caliber 3019 PHF (still Manual wind).

 

[LouS]

Fred400

The Martel watch is interesting. Probably the predecessor of the El Primero caliber 3019 PHF (still Manual wind).

What makes you say that? It is a Martel/UG cal 291

 

[Fred400]

I think the line Martel - Zenith, Martel caliber 749, universal Genève caliber 285 to Zenith series 146 ff, is known to us. Martel was the great watches and chronograph Designer. So, Martel could have tested moon phase and calendar in the non-chronograph caliber 291. Possibly he has this idea later in the construction of the caliber of 3019 (or perhaps 3029) have applied. Is a speculation of course but it could be so.

 

[LouS]

Why not the Tri-Compax movement? Same manufacturer, the chronograph house is already there, and the day-month guichets are closer to the 3019PHF configuration. I think it is groundless speculation. The 3019, though built by the Martel facility, was a new development. Obviously, the Martel expertise was key, but the movement was entirely new.

 

[Fred400]

You're right, of course. It is speculation. The "Tricompax" was built later, as the calibre of 291. So, this may have been a "normal" development. I know that the work of 3019 had a long development time by Martel. So, this first idea for the calendar may have played quite a role. Who knows today?

 

[MMMD]

LouS

May be authentic - although even the accumulation of examples does not convince me so - but it is not a design triumph.

Agree, an unpleasant looking watch. But the accumulation of examples makes me feel better about my initial gut call of kosher.

http://omegaforums.net/index.php?threads/Information-about-my-zenith-146-hp.13654/#post-154882

Thought I was slipping there for a minute.

 

[alain2701]

The fourth one ...

For your information :
- serial number between the lugs : 986
-serial number on the case back : 184D47

 

[jfwoodman]

A alain2701

The fourth one ...

For your information :
- serial number between the lugs : 986
-serial number on the case back : 184D47

Hmmm...I was thinking wrong bezel on these until this last one. All seems to come together well, but that means nothing as to being proper examples. Looks good though.