First post - questions about vintage EPs

[boeckelr]

Hi everyone,

This is my first post on this forum. I recently bought a modern Zenith. While researching it, I fell in love with the early El Primero's. Even though I just bought a new watch, I've spent a lot of free time checking and re-checking eBay and chrono24 for the early EP's.

I read somewhere that a Zenith collector said that if he had only one watch to choose from, it would be an a386. While I'd love to own one, and hope to someday, I was wondering what most collectors would consider their second or even third favorite piece?

And given scarcity and rapidly increasing prices, are there any models that a new collector could use to start to build a collection without having to pay the high prices that most a386's cost now? In other words, are there some models that are less sought after and less expensive? And is price mostly a function of how well preserved a vintage watch is? Would a good condition a3817 be priced similarly to a good condition a386?

Thanks!
Mike

 

[ulackfocus]

Hi Mike. Welcome to the forum. If you check the WRUW thread and the thread about El Primero Day I think you'll find the second most popular might be the A3817. It's pictured in the first post of the EP Day thread. If you want to get a vintage EP without breaking the bank, just look at the second post in the EP Day thread - it's the reference 01.0210.415 C-case from 1973, the last model made before the Apocalypse as the Zenith guys call it.

 

[haga888]

Any EP with Movado on the dial instead of Zenith will be half the price of the equivalent Zenith as well.

A good condition A3817 would probably be a couple of grand less than an equal condition A386 (whose price seems to be rising by the week), although I think much harder to find one that hasn't been polished to death and being more rare in general (~1,000 vs ~2,500).

 

[cicindela]

You do realize that you have to apply to Lou for a Zenith purchase permit, don't you? You have to fill out the background data section and then list 6 choices in order of preference. Then a committee of MD's has to process the application and in 6 months you will be given your purchase allotment, provided you are accepted.

Few are chosen, Judgement is harsh.

 

[ulackfocus]

cicindela

Few are chosen, Judgement is harsh.

You ain't kiddin'! It took me a few years and several assists on Longines to earn my right to get an EP without having to outbid the Illumzenati.

haga888

Any EP with Movado on the dial instead of Zenith will be half the price of the equivalent Zenith as well.

Forgot about the Datachrons and similar Movados.

 

[LouS]

cicindela

You do realize that you have to apply to Lou for a Zenith purchase permit, don't you? You have to fill out the background data section and then list 6 choices in order of preference. Then a committee of MD's has to process the application and in 6 months you will be given your purchase allotment, provided you are accepted.

Few are chosen, Judgement is harsh.

Just because there were a few...ah...irregularities on your application, Steve, doesn't mean that everyone will have to pass the test with the shaved rabbits...well, the less said the better.

Mike, it's a good insight that Dennis had about the A3817. It's the same tricolor dial in the inconic angular case - a winner in my book, although that case is an acquired taste.

The other inexpensive ones are the slab-cases A 781-782-782, again if you can live with the case, which gives up some of the Primero's amazing advantage in size.

This just posted:http://www.ebay.com/itm/ZENITH-EL-P...223180836?pt=Wristwatches&hash=item27ddb26624

overpolished, and with a wrong-color running seconds hand, but instructive to see where it finishes.

 

[cicindela]

LouS

Just because there were a few...ah...irregularities on your application, Steve, doesn't mean that everyone will have to pass the test with the shaved rabbits...well, the less said the better.

Dennis told me if I put down that I already owned 24, A386 and 12, S58 it would look real good on my application .
I figured, eh, what the heck, NY, Joisey, they're used a little pumping up the books.

 

[LouS]

cicindela

Dennis told me if I put down that I already owned 24, A386 and 12, S58 it would look real good on my application .
I figured, eh, what the heck, NY, Joisey, they're used a little pumping up the books.

I'll bet you didn't expect the Spanish Inquisition

 

[cicindela]

LouS

I'll bet you didn't expect the Spanish Inquisition

Bless me Father, for I have sinned.

 

[ulackfocus]

LouS

I'll bet you didn't expect the Spanish Inquisition

NOBODY expects the Spanish Inquisition!

(thanks for the set-up Lou)

 

[boeckelr]

Hey guys,

Thanks for all of the replies..and for the advice.

To everyone who mentioned that I need to obtain a buyers permit from Lou - could somebody put in a good word for me??

Lou it's funny that you mentioned the a3817 because when I was going thru some of your posts, that's the one that I liked best after the a386.

I was a kid in the 70's...looking at a385, a385 and even a3817 gives me a feeling like déjà vu. Is that case design specific to Zenith, or was that the way a lot of watches looked like in the 70's? Because they look so familiar to me, I'm starting to wonder if someone that I knew then - maybe a relative, friend of the family or parent of one of my friends - wore a Zenith.

 

[ulackfocus]

Can't say a ton were made in that exact style, but I can say from experience there were a few Jaeger LeCoultre and Longines with similar cases.

 

[LouS]

B boeckelr

To everyone who mentioned that I need to obtain a buyers permit from Lou - could somebody put in a good word for me??

You have a conditional permit - no gold references until you establish your "eye" on the steel ones. Catch and release if redial, overpolished case, inauthentic part substitutions. Failure to do so will result in mockery.

B boeckelr

I was a kid in the 70's...looking at a385, a385 and even a3817 gives me a feeling like déjà vu. Is that case design specific to Zenith, or was that the way a lot of watches looked like in the 70's? Because they look so familiar to me, I'm starting to wonder if someone that I knew then - maybe a relative, friend of the family or parent of one of my friends - wore a Zenith.

the blocky case was a 1970s thing for sure. In fact the Primero version is an unusually graceful and delicate version of same. Examples abound