El Primero History

Jeff Stein
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Great forum here . . . happy to have joined!! (And I am in the process of correcting the way my name appears.)

Can anyone suggest a good online resource describing the history of the El Primero movement? Which watches was it used in in the 1970s, other than Zenith, Movado and Rolex? What years was it produced -- introduced in 1969, but how long was it used (back then) and when was it re-introduced? What other brands have used the movement since it was re-introduced? TAG Heuer, but anyone else? What about the flybacks -- introduced when? What about other complications?

Can anyone recommend a good overview / history that covers these points?

Thanks in advance!!

Jeff Stein
Atlanta, Georgia
 
dsio
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Jeff, I deleted the first account that didn't register correctly and changed your current account to Jeff Stein (the one registered with your onthedash@ email account). If you want, you can log out and in again to verify its all correct and email us at [email protected] if you have any further issues.
 
Gavin
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Hi Jeff. Great to see you around here. Don't think there's any single online resource. Seems to be mainly available from the members of the fora, this one included. But I am not the best person to advise. I am sure the guys will jump in later.
Welcome to the forum. And thank you for the A277.:)
 
Jeff Stein
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dsio dsio
Jeff, I deleted the first account that didn't register correctly and changed your current account to Jeff Stein (the one registered with your onthedash@ email account). If you want, you can log out and in again to verify its all correct and email us at [email protected] if you have any further issues.

Thanks!! The name on my account seems to have been corrected.

OK . . . so who will provide some "El Primero History"?

Thanks for all this!!

Jeff
 
MMMD
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Hi Jeff,

My guess is that this thread will become the online resource you're seeking. :)

There are bits and pieces all over the web to answer most of your questions, some in places very familiar to you (http://www.onthedash.com/thoughts/el-primero-cheat-sheet/), and some not that far away - for example, a list of brands that have used the El Primero:

http://omegaforums.net/index.php?threads/The-Other-El-Primero-Movement.5757/

... but you have very nicely outlined a need.

We are still waiting for LouS to write the definitive, comprehensive history of this fabled movement, but, sadly, he seems to have a day job. And he's still youngish, with a penchant for fabulous watches, so there's little chance of him retiring soon.
My coffee table will probably have to wait... but we can hope.

Welcome to the forum! Great to see a player of your caliber here.

Marc
 
Jeff Stein
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So if there is no good overview / history of the El Primero, then it seems like someone needs to write one!! My research shows that some have written about the development and introduction of the movement, circa 1969, and we have the Charles Vermont chapter of the history -- http://chronocentric.com/forums/heuer/index.cgi?md=read;id=52500 -- but what about the rebirth / recent history?

Jeff
 
MMMD
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A great story all around - rebirth too - but the early history needs to be really fleshed out first. The individuals involved, the role of Martel, the race against the Heuer/Breitling/Buren group and Seiko, a solid timeline, the origin of the name "El Primero" itself (though perhaps obvious on the face of it), the introduction in Spain and the mysterious lack of fanfare on January 1969, the prototypes, getting it to market... a lot still foggy and pleading for primary-source research.

By the way, belated thanks for this very good stuff on the race to develop the first automatic chronograph:

http://www.onthedash.com/docs/Project99.html
 
Interstatetime
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Gigi...Thanks for the link to the article on Orologi e Passioni and thanks for recommending that great site to me in the first place.

JohnCote
 
MMMD
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Yes, thanks GIGI. Nicola's work is some of the best stuff available on Zenith, and the depth of his research is unparalleled. Once in a while he makes a "deus ex machina" appearance in the WUS Zenith subforum and turns discussions around with two words and an image of a patent application or an old advertisement. I should have thought to mention him earlier. That El Primero post is a gem, and the information in it must have not have been easy to gather in 2008, in the pre-Rössler era.
 
LouS
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Quite right - that post of Nicola's is the root of all El Primero knowledge - everything grew from that. I remember plowing through it with Mr. Google and my knowledge of a couple of other romance languages in my early Primero-collecting days. Add in his Primero blueprints and a couple of other choice insights and there's your definitive history until Zenith itself decides to open its vaults.
 
Jeff Stein
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Thanks to everyone for the responses and the recommendations. The posting by Nicola is absolutely amazing . . . perhaps some day we can have it translated into English and posted for the benefit of those who struggle with the Italian or the translation.

The El Primero movement really has an interesting history. That history is about to take a slightly new turn, as TAG Heuer launches its new Carrera Calibre 36 Flyback chronograph. I have been wearing a "loaner" for a few days and really have enjoyed it. Of course, TAG Heuer has been using the Calibre 36 in a few models, but nothing as "mainstream" (conventional looking) as this new Carrera.

Jeff
 
Privateday7
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Jeff Stein Jeff Stein
Thanks to everyone for the responses and the recommendations. The posting by Nicola is absolutely amazing . . . perhaps some day we can have it translated into English and posted for the benefit of those who struggle with the Italian or the translation.

The El Primero movement really has an interesting history. That history is about to take a slightly new turn, as TAG Heuer launches its new Carrera Calibre 36 Flyback chronograph. I have been wearing a "loaner" for a few days and really have enjoyed it. Of course, TAG Heuer has been using the Calibre 36 in a few models, but nothing as "mainstream" (conventional looking) as this new Carrera.

Jeff

Hi Jeff,
I am glad (and proud) that you joined this forum. I enjoyed reading Caliber 11 occasionally, and become my Tag Heuer reference site.
What is the view of Tag collectors regarding El Primero movement? At least in here (Indonesia) it is not considered a very important factor (unlike Rolex Daytona for example).


This is my thread seeking information on that: http://omegaforums.net/threads/the-other-el-primero-movement.5757/
I would like to hear your opinion since I believe you have correspondence with many Tag collectors and understand better on how they view the desirability, collectibility and market value of Tag with El Primero caliber.

Thank you and kind regards.
Herianto

ps: Your maroon Autavia is awesome :thumbsup:
 
Jeff Stein
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With arrival of a couple of summer interns at OnTheDash, and grant of permission from Nicola, and Mr. Google's decent translation skills, I am optimistic that we will soon have a translation of Nicola's posting into English, with all the images in place, hosted OnTheDash.

OK, so they are not really summer interns . . . they are my children . . . but I can dream, right?
 
LouS
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Jeff Stein Jeff Stein
OK, so they are not really summer interns . . . they are my children . . . but I can dream, right?

Commendable, Jeff. Child labor was one of the foundations of American industrial might. Builds character and keeps them out of the pool halls too. We look forward to great things!
 
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