Calling all Pocket Watch Buffs

[pdxleaf]

This is my first purchased PW, which was an impulse purchase when I knew nothing about PW, except that I wanted one. After this, I did some reading and purchased my Hamilton 992 and Illinois 23j Bunn Special, both of which I really like. (My first owned PW was an Elgin that came out of the attic of my great-grandmother, which was later stolen in a house burglary.)

So this brings me back to my neglected and unloved first PW. I decided to pull it out (had to look all over the house for it) and try to figure out what it is.

Longines, 17j, double (?) Hunter Fahys 16s, serial number 1588888. It looks attractive to me, which is why I bought it. But it's a mystery as to model, grade and production year and volume.

Edited: Tues. 11:58am

 

[Canuck]

My best guess is that the engraved cuvette showing 1907 is about the best guess for vintage. I was unable to see the word “double” anywhere, but it might refer to the watch having a double roller (as opposed to a single roller). The Swiss movement is in an American case which would appear to be original. So, if he Watch did service in North America, it could not be considered of railroad standard. By 1907, in North America, a railroad standard watch would have needed to have the manufacturer’s name on the dial, and the movement would have had to been marked double roller”, and “timed to x positions”. The hunter case would also not have been railroad standard. It would appear hat the Longines is “stem set”, not “lever set”. It would appear to be a better than average Swiss-made watch for the era. 17-jewels, temperature compensated balance wheel, blued steel Breguet (overcoil) hairspring, patented micrometer regulator. I am not aware that Longines watches were ever accepted for railroad use in the U S A. But some grades of Longines were accepted in Canada. But I suspect this is not one of those. Pretty case, and in total, seems in nice condition.

 

[pdxleaf]

Canuck

My best guess is that the engraved cuvette showing 1907 is about the best guess for vintage. I was unable to see the word “double” anywhere, but it might refer to the watch having a double roller (as opposed to a single roller). The Swiss movement is in an American case which would appear to be original. So, if he Watch did service in North America, it could not be considered of railroad standard. By 1907, in North America, a railroad standard watch would have needed to have the manufacturer’s name on the dial, and the movement would have had to been marked double roller”, and “timed to x positions”. The hunter case would also not have been railroad standard. It would appear hat the Longines is “stem set”, not “lever set”. It would appear to be a better than average Swiss-made watch for the era. 17-jewels, temperature compensated balance wheel, blued steel Breguet (overcoil) hairspring, patented micrometer regulator. I am not aware that Longines watches were ever accepted for railroad use in the U S A. But some grades of Longines were accepted in Canada. But I suspect this is not one of those. Pretty case, and in total, seems in nice condition.

Thanks. It does look a bit more embellished than many of the Longines I see on the web.

The case doesn’t have brassing but it has a couple scratches, one of which indented the case slightly. (In some respects, a good shape case with one or two scratches tends to look worse than an overal worn case. I keep focusing on the couple scratches. )

I think this was intended for the USA market; at least I found it in the US. I read a post that stated that Longines PW imported into Britain could not include the brand on the dial. If true, it could have also applied to the USA intended watches, which explains why it doesn't include "Longines" on the dial.

I could probably get an extract from Longines but don't want to pay for one.

I need to get it cleaned so I can find out how accurate it is.

These PWs are pretty interesting. They've turned my head away from wristwatches. At this point, I think I'd like a clean Waltham 1872 American WC or AmWC. (I'd love a14k or 18k, but I can't imagine paying for one.) This seems like it would round out my small collection. The American grade vs Am vs AMn is a bit confusing. As is the 21j vs 15 or even 16j. Some of the 15j can be more expensive than 21j it seems, which is based on how many were produced? Anyway, Speedmasters are pretty straightforward compared to PWs.

 

[Canuck]

I hadn’t heard that Longines watches offered for sale in Britain could not have the name on the dial, and I very much doubt that would apply to the U S A. Learn something every day!

 

[pdxleaf]

Canuck

I hadn’t heard that Longines watches offered for sale in Britain could not have the name on the dial, and I very much doubt that would apply to the U S A. Learn something every day!

Here's where I read it. Not sure how accurate or if I read into it:

"In the nineteenth and early twentieth centuries it was usual in Britain for watches to be branded, if they were branded at all, with the name of the retailer, not the manufacturer. This was a requirement of British retailers; the names of foreign manufacturers were simply not allowed on the goods they stocked. As a consequence of this, almost all Swiss watches imported into Britain until the 1920s were unsigned on the dial and movement. If any name appeared on the dial, it was the name of the British retailer, e.g. Harrods, Asprey. etc. These names were usually added to the dial in enamel paint, which is nothing like as durable as the vitreous enamel of the dial itself and has often become badly worn or disappeared altogether."

https://www.vintagewatchstraps.com/longines.php

 

[Bernhard J]

Yesterday I won an on-line auction for this watch for absolute silly money. The movement is nothing special, but the enameled (not printed!) dial signature attracted my attention. I had never seen such a signature with a phone number before. Additionally the signature rang a bell, since I am a classic car lover. "Snutsel" was a Belgian high end coachbuilder in the first quarter of the 20th century and made bodies for various makes. So I reckoned that this might be an advertisement watch for this coachbuilder. Further research gave a Brussels phone book from 1914, and indeed, the phone number on the dial is that of a dependance of this coachbuilder. Here are photos of the watch, two bodies made by Snutsel (chassis: Benz 200 (!) HP, both), and further evidence regarding the phone number.

The seller had not done any homework of this kind and provided a very brief description only.

Now I just need to sell all watches, clocks, the house, etc., for purchasing a Snutsel bodied car like the one presented in Pebble Beach for matching this watch

Edited: 5:18am yesterday

 

[Canuck]

I noticed the gun metal case on your latest watch. Very often, European gun metal cases also have some gold plating on them. Often of rose gold colour. Is your case like that? This watch has an interesting tie-in to the coachworks builder. Somewhat akin to the watch produced by Hamilton for the Packard motor car company. These dials have the image of a Packard radiator shell, and the message “ASK THE MAN WHO OWNS ONE”. A watch can become more than just another watch if one is prepared to forage a bit to uncover the background. Very interesting!

Edited to add that if your watch has the gold trim, that finish is called “gallone”.

Edited: 5:55am yesterday

 

[Bernhard J]

Canuck

Edited to add that if your watch has the gold trim, that finish is called “gallone”.

It does.

 

[DaveK]

Bernhard J

Yesterday I won an on-line auction for this watch for absolute silly money. The movement is nothing special, but the enameled (not printed!) dial signature attracted my attention. I had never seen such a signature with a phone number before. Additionally the signature rang a bell, since I am a classic car lover. "Snutsel" was a Belgian high end coachbuilder in the first quarter of the 20th century and made bodies for various makes. So I reckoned that this might be an advertisement watch for this coachbuilder. Further research gave a Brussels phone book from 1914, and indeed, the phone number on the dial is that of a dependance of this coachbuilder. Here are photos of the watch, two bodies made by Snutsel (chassis: Benz 200 (!) HP, both), and further evidence regarding the phone number.

The seller had not done any homework of this kind and provided a very brief description only.

Now I just need to sell all watches, clocks, the house, etc., for purchasing a Snutsel bodied car like the one presented in Pebble Beach for matching this watch

I’ve never seen a phone number on a watch before, very nice. There are a few private label watches I’m on the lookout for. It is certainly an interesting way to collect.


Funny how they could have pretty much just spelled out telephone instead of teleph : - 😁

 

[Waltesefalcon]

Canuck

I noticed the gun metal case on your latest watch. Very often, European gun metal cases also have some gold plating on them. Often of rose gold colour. Is your case like that? This watch has an interesting tie-in to the coachworks builder. Somewhat akin to the watch produced by Hamilton for the Packard motor car company. These dials have the image of a Packard radiator shell, and the message “ASK THE MAN WHO OWNS ONE”. A watch can become more than just another watch if one is prepared to forage a bit to uncover the background. Very interesting!

Edited to add that if your watch has the gold trim, that finish is called “gallone”.

Oh, I'm jealous. I have often thought about buying a Packard Hamilton, but I haven't found the one for me yet.

 

[DaveK]

Waltesefalcon

Oh, I'm jealous. I have often thought about buying a Packard Hamilton, but I haven't found the one for me yet.

You can get a mail order studebaker for not too much money

 

[TexOmega]

Waltham Watch Co.
17j 18s PS Bartlett grade model 1883 circa 1901

Louis 14th style hands

Cool multicolored fancy dial and extra cool Full Box Hunter case

 

[Waltesefalcon]

DaveK

You can get a mail order studebaker for not too much money

That's not quite the same, I'm afraid.